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	<title>Comments on: Carrying Water for the AP, Day 4</title>
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	<link>http://eyeonwiner.org/archives/2008/carrying-water-for-the-ap-day-4</link>
	<description>Keeping an eye on Dave Winer</description>
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		<title>By: EyeOnWiner</title>
		<link>http://eyeonwiner.org/archives/2008/carrying-water-for-the-ap-day-4/comment-page-1#comment-1410</link>
		<dc:creator>EyeOnWiner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jun 2008 00:07:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eyeonwiner.org/?p=400#comment-1410</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Of course, Dave didn&#039;t get his info from their legal department, he got it from a buddy of his&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course, Dave didn&#8217;t get his info from their legal department, he got it from a buddy of his</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: McD</title>
		<link>http://eyeonwiner.org/archives/2008/carrying-water-for-the-ap-day-4/comment-page-1#comment-1409</link>
		<dc:creator>McD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jun 2008 23:36:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eyeonwiner.org/?p=400#comment-1409</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Dave&#039;s newsjunk.org site uses an AP article in the same manner on 6/23/2008 that Cadenhead&#039;s site did and was reuqested to be removed:&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The site uses the AP &quot;lede&quot; without any change displayed as a link the AP article:&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;3:33 AM:    Obama braces for race-based ads.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;and the text included is 39 words cut straight from the head parapgrahs of the story.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;A presidential candidate who&#039;s named Hussein and wears a turban? A building that&#039;s called the White House but run by a black guy? Those political images and ideas already have found their way onto TV airwaves and campaign buttons. AP.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;NOTE: Dave contacted AP and they told him newsjunk was not infringing in their view.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I don&#039;t get the infringing difference because there isn&#039;t one with the possible exception that Rogers site allows readers to comment in the article without leaving the site and Dave&#039;s does not. It&#039;s a pure list of articles to click through to.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Hopefully, the AP will clarify what they intend to accept from other sites and what they will contest as infringing.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Dave says wait a bit for the AP to come to a fair conclusion... tic, tic, tic.
Still waiting. Fair use... fairness... fair weather friends.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave&#8217;s newsjunk.org site uses an AP article in the same manner on 6/23/2008 that Cadenhead&#8217;s site did and was reuqested to be removed:</p>

<p>The site uses the AP &#8220;lede&#8221; without any change displayed as a link the AP article:</p>

<p>3:33 AM:    Obama braces for race-based ads.</p>

<p>and the text included is 39 words cut straight from the head parapgrahs of the story.</p>

<p>A presidential candidate who&#8217;s named Hussein and wears a turban? A building that&#8217;s called the White House but run by a black guy? Those political images and ideas already have found their way onto TV airwaves and campaign buttons. AP.</p>

<p>NOTE: Dave contacted AP and they told him newsjunk was not infringing in their view.</p>

<p>I don&#8217;t get the infringing difference because there isn&#8217;t one with the possible exception that Rogers site allows readers to comment in the article without leaving the site and Dave&#8217;s does not. It&#8217;s a pure list of articles to click through to.</p>

<p>Hopefully, the AP will clarify what they intend to accept from other sites and what they will contest as infringing.</p>

<p>Dave says wait a bit for the AP to come to a fair conclusion&#8230; tic, tic, tic.
Still waiting. Fair use&#8230; fairness&#8230; fair weather friends.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Bullshit Mancuso</title>
		<link>http://eyeonwiner.org/archives/2008/carrying-water-for-the-ap-day-4/comment-page-1#comment-1407</link>
		<dc:creator>Bullshit Mancuso</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jun 2008 15:07:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eyeonwiner.org/?p=400#comment-1407</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;http://twitter.com/davewiner/statuses/840657730:&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&quot;Collectively the tech blogosphere thinks any problem can be solved with a good temper tantrum. This is bullshit. The problem is still there.&quot;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;http://twitter.com/davewiner/statuses/840658189:&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&quot;Me, I&#039;m trying to get us a whole other class of content, some wonderful stuff. We don&#039;t produce it in the blogosphere. AP and AFP do.&quot;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;http://twitter.com/davewiner/statuses/840658453:&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&quot;But when you scream at them every time they move, even awkwardly, you make it impossible. And you guys got played by Cadenhead. He&#039;s great.&quot;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;It&#039;s funny that Winer thinks his NewsJunk application would pass muster with AP&#039;s lawyers, simply because some AP new media exec he&#039;s pals with told him so. His application makes automated use of RSS feeds and republishes items. Every pro media site that offers feeds has a terms of service that prohibits that kind of stuff.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Unless he&#039;s negotiated with all the sources that feed NewsJunk, he&#039;s fucking nuts to believe it&#039;s some new &quot;class of content&quot; that would be treated as fair use.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://twitter.com/davewiner/statuses/840657730" rel="nofollow">http://twitter.com/davewiner/statuses/840657730</a>:</p>

<p>&#8220;Collectively the tech blogosphere thinks any problem can be solved with a good temper tantrum. This is bullshit. The problem is still there.&#8221;</p>

<p><a href="http://twitter.com/davewiner/statuses/840658189" rel="nofollow">http://twitter.com/davewiner/statuses/840658189</a>:</p>

<p>&#8220;Me, I&#8217;m trying to get us a whole other class of content, some wonderful stuff. We don&#8217;t produce it in the blogosphere. AP and AFP do.&#8221;</p>

<p><a href="http://twitter.com/davewiner/statuses/840658453" rel="nofollow">http://twitter.com/davewiner/statuses/840658453</a>:</p>

<p>&#8220;But when you scream at them every time they move, even awkwardly, you make it impossible. And you guys got played by Cadenhead. He&#8217;s great.&#8221;</p>

<p>It&#8217;s funny that Winer thinks his NewsJunk application would pass muster with AP&#8217;s lawyers, simply because some AP new media exec he&#8217;s pals with told him so. His application makes automated use of RSS feeds and republishes items. Every pro media site that offers feeds has a terms of service that prohibits that kind of stuff.</p>

<p>Unless he&#8217;s negotiated with all the sources that feed NewsJunk, he&#8217;s fucking nuts to believe it&#8217;s some new &#8220;class of content&#8221; that would be treated as fair use.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://eyeonwiner.org/archives/2008/carrying-water-for-the-ap-day-4/comment-page-1#comment-1392</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jun 2008 05:35:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eyeonwiner.org/?p=400#comment-1392</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Dave gives Rogers Cadenhead his due with this text:&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&quot;Even Rogers Cadenhead, who I sometimes think as the blogger&#039;s equiv of Al Sharpton, is actively trying to douse the flames.&quot;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;(Again without much context to explain...)&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;When Dave&#039;s lawyer asked for $5000 to be returned and all rights released for a shared web site, Rogers usd his blog to let people know how Dave does business.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I guess Al Sharpton calls for justice using the media... by passing the courts.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave gives Rogers Cadenhead his due with this text:</p>

<p>&#8220;Even Rogers Cadenhead, who I sometimes think as the blogger&#8217;s equiv of Al Sharpton, is actively trying to douse the flames.&#8221;</p>

<p>(Again without much context to explain&#8230;)</p>

<p>When Dave&#8217;s lawyer asked for $5000 to be returned and all rights released for a shared web site, Rogers usd his blog to let people know how Dave does business.</p>

<p>I guess Al Sharpton calls for justice using the media&#8230; by passing the courts.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: EyeOnWiner</title>
		<link>http://eyeonwiner.org/archives/2008/carrying-water-for-the-ap-day-4/comment-page-1#comment-1390</link>
		<dc:creator>EyeOnWiner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jun 2008 19:01:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eyeonwiner.org/?p=400#comment-1390</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Dave, your logic is hopelessly broken.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;First, the fact that I don&#039;t disclose (if we assume that I don&#039;t) doesn&#039;t mean that you are exempt from criticism for your failures to disclose.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Second, you can&#039;t disclose that which doesn&#039;t exist. I have no conflicts with respect to this site. The organization for which I work has no interest whatsoever, financial or otherwise, in you or anything else I&#039;ve written about here.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;But what I see is this:&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;1. Dave spends four days &quot;testifying for&quot; the AP.&lt;br /&gt;
2. Dave is called out on EOW for not disclosing the nature of his relationship with the AP.&lt;br /&gt;
3. Dave attempts to deflect the criticism by using a variant of the &quot;you&#039;re doing it to&quot; defense.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;End result? Even if you&#039;re right (you&#039;re not), and I have a conflict I should be disclosing (I don&#039;t)... you&#039;re still wrong for obfuscating and avoiding the nature of your relationship with the AP.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;As a side note, you&#039;re also wrong on the issue... so you don&#039;t have much of a batting average in this one.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave, your logic is hopelessly broken.</p>

<p>First, the fact that I don&#8217;t disclose (if we assume that I don&#8217;t) doesn&#8217;t mean that you are exempt from criticism for your failures to disclose.</p>

<p>Second, you can&#8217;t disclose that which doesn&#8217;t exist. I have no conflicts with respect to this site. The organization for which I work has no interest whatsoever, financial or otherwise, in you or anything else I&#8217;ve written about here.</p>

<p>But what I see is this:</p>

<p>1. Dave spends four days &#8220;testifying for&#8221; the AP.<br />
2. Dave is called out on EOW for not disclosing the nature of his relationship with the AP.<br />
3. Dave attempts to deflect the criticism by using a variant of the &#8220;you&#8217;re doing it to&#8221; defense.</p>

<p>End result? Even if you&#8217;re right (you&#8217;re not), and I have a conflict I should be disclosing (I don&#8217;t)&#8230; you&#8217;re still wrong for obfuscating and avoiding the nature of your relationship with the AP.</p>

<p>As a side note, you&#8217;re also wrong on the issue&#8230; so you don&#8217;t have much of a batting average in this one.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: EvilMole</title>
		<link>http://eyeonwiner.org/archives/2008/carrying-water-for-the-ap-day-4/comment-page-1#comment-1389</link>
		<dc:creator>EvilMole</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jun 2008 17:58:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eyeonwiner.org/?p=400#comment-1389</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Hi Dave... erm, I mean &quot;John Mccain&quot;.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Dave&#8230; erm, I mean &#8220;John Mccain&#8221;.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: John Mccain (Dave Winer)</title>
		<link>http://eyeonwiner.org/archives/2008/carrying-water-for-the-ap-day-4/comment-page-1#comment-1388</link>
		<dc:creator>John Mccain (Dave Winer)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jun 2008 17:55:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eyeonwiner.org/?p=400#comment-1388</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;We know a lot more about Winer than we do about you. Who are YOU shilling for? What company do you work for?  We don&#039;t even know your NAME! When you start disclosing, you&#039;ll be in a position to criticize other people for not disclosing.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&lt;small&gt;&lt;i&gt;(Nave edited to reflect the obvious. --eow.)&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We know a lot more about Winer than we do about you. Who are YOU shilling for? What company do you work for?  We don&#8217;t even know your NAME! When you start disclosing, you&#8217;ll be in a position to criticize other people for not disclosing.</p>

<p><small><i>(Nave edited to reflect the obvious. &#8211;eow.)</i></small></p>]]></content:encoded>
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