Dave’s pieces get more out-there and bizarre every day and the election is still a month away. How much longer can the descent into complete lunacy take?
Dave wrote a novel today. Let me give you the executive summary:
I have a bunch of prejudices against conservatives and republicans. Allow me to explicate them in great detail. Except, instead of calling it “prejudice” I’m going to call it “truth”. Now do you see how terrible Republicans are? (Not that I’m a Democrat, no sir!)
Republicans hate me because I’m so awesome. I’m such an incredible American and they’re all just jealous of all of my knowledge and wisdom and worldliness. They’re stupid because they don’t want to go to Europe.
In summary, I am great, and the reason that the discourse in this country is so terrible is because so many people are too stupid to know they should just listen to me. But fuck them, because they’re stupid and I’m not.
That was the gist of the article. I still don’t understand what the point of it was, if not to stroke his own ego a little bit and reassure himself that he is, in fact, superior to everyone who thinks differently than he does.
Then we get more tripe about Palin. A woman about whom I am incredibly sick of hearing. Consider this hypothetical scenario:
Step One: Dave reads up on Obama’s platform and policy proposals. This is necessary because, at present, he knows virtually nothing about what Obama really wants to do. All he knows is that they love him in Europe, he says pretty things for the camera, and he’s not some stupid Republican.
Step Two: Dave sends his time educating his readers about Obama’s policies and proposals. Everyone who reads Scripting News knows more than they did before.
If Dave had followed those two steps he would be doing so much more for the Obama campaign than he is right now with his constant attempts to play political analyst.
Anyway, I digress. How long before Dave completely loses his shit? (Assume, for the sage of argument, that this has not already happened)
It’s easy to read if you just see the page as:
Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah I am a god Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah I am the greatest Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah You are a shit Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah I am the god Blah Blah Blah Blah
Dave off his meds, again?
The arrogance of Winer is something most sane folks take for granted. But the real stupidity of his latest piece is in stereotyping the U.S. vis a vis geography.
Take a look at the blue streak which runs down the Mississippi delta. Hmmm… is this a pocket of brilliantly educated and well-travelled folk that Dave has overlooked? On the contrary, they are mostly poor, mostly black citizens, at least 60% of whom are high-school dropouts. They have always voted Democrat, and likely always will.
His paragraph which begins “I have an excellent education…” etc., could describe, word-for-word, not only me but millions of other red-staters.
So what we have on display here is equal parts arrogance and ignorance. Folks like Winer, who spend thousands of words trying to convince us that they don’t care what others think of them, are actually are the ones who care most passionately.
Dave, we don’t hate you because you’re smarter than all of us. We dislike you because you’re an asshole. Pretty simple, really.
“That was the gist of the article. I still don’t understand what the point of it was, if not to stroke his own ego a little bit and reassure himself that he is, in fact, superior to everyone who thinks differently than he does.”
My Bet: Someone Dave has at least a little respect for said “Dave, your posts are really hateful”
Dave (with persecution complex firmly in place) wrote a long ass post explaining how he’s completely justified in being full of hate because secretly everyone on the right hates him.
I see BetsyTheDevine updated the Winer photograph on Wikipedia. Dave thought the other photo was too unflattering.
What’s with the “Brooklyn, New York City, USA” as opposed to Brooklyn, New York? Most US citations are simply city, state. Brooklyn, New York seems to be good enough for the likes of Joe Torre.
Dave tries so hard to be civil and level headed. But every once in a while you get a peak into how fucked he truly is. There are no meds that will stop you from being an egotistical asshole.
Outbursts like this are good because they serve to remind us, when you might start thinking that dave’s an ok guy, that he’s poison.
What’s amusing is that he turned off comments on that post specifically because he clearly saw that he was being called on his idiocy and BS. Note that there is one little sycophant who said what Dave wanted to hear and then the comments section went silent. I wonder how many comments piled up before he closed them off and cross-posted it over to the HuffPost where his ego could be inflated by like-minded true believers.
What’s that quote about small minds? Right, small minds cannot grasp great subjects. If it was a great thought, then why fear the critiques? Instead Dave prefers like a beta chimpanzee to fling his shit and then run hide from the response that it generates.
“I see BetsyTheDevine updated the Winer photograph on Wikipedia. Dave thought the other photo was too unflattering.”
What is her deal? Why the obsession with Dave Winer? If there is a creature more pathetic than Winer is has to be his sycophants.
Why I understand people being critical of Winer, what exactly is wrong with somebody trying to get a good picture of Dave Winer on Wikipedia.
Pictures on Wikipedia should be akin to a press headshot. The reason why a lot are not is because of the WP’s preference for having no pictures with other people’s copyright, not because the photos should be “candid”. I think the one Besty used is good, it’s similar to the headshots of Obama and McCain.
Nobody wants unflattering pictures on Wikipedia–I want that resource to be an encyclopedia and follow encyclopedia standards.
The picture issue shows how obsessive Betsy Devine is about protecting Dave’s reputation on Wikipedia. Dave’s a fat slob who doesn’t believe in personal grooming. If she has really made it her life’s work to find a flattering picture of him, I can only wish the sad pathetic Winer fangirl good luck. She’s going to be searching for a long time.
“Pictures on Wikipedia should be akin to a press headshot.[Citation Needed]“
Fixed that for you.
Still doesn’t address the Wikipedia issue. And it’s pretty sad people decide to attack the personal appearance of people. I’m sure several of the people posting here fit that description in real life. And I guess NPOV goes both ways–if it’s your goal to show a body-shot of Winer because you want to show the world he’s fat, what goals are you after with Wikipedia.
And one more point, since EOW wrote a citation. There’s not a direct Citation of Images, but here’s a general goal
So, if BS is stating the reason why the other image is preferable to you, it violates THAT policy.
The issue, JRT, is not that anyone here particularly cares what picture is used of Dave. The issue is that Dave has been grousing about the picture being “unflattering” for months and finally Betsy comes to his rescue, defending him from a terrible, terrible offense: a picture that looks like him.
If it were just that, I doubt anyone would care. But given her history of being a good friend of his (so much for NPOV) and championing his cause every time he whines about something in his Wikipedia Bio, allowing her to serve as an editor on his page really makes Wikipedia look like a joke.
If you know someone, you get taken care of.
… if it’s your goal to show a body-shot of Winer because you want to show the world he’s fat, what goals are you after with Wikipedia.
Uh, JRT, we didn’t have anything to do with those pictures on Wikipedia.
EOW: Being a friend of somebody does not automatically disqualify one for automatically being NPOV. She has left other things unflattering to Dave there. She’s working with the system. Should all fans of musicians not contribute to the articles?
I see the photo issue as being the least of the concerns. If she was trying to get rid of unflattering (but factual non-trivial and non-spun information), then I’d see a concern. But Winer-haters too have tried to sabotage the articles, so people like Betsy are needed to assist. And really, if a celebrity or somebody else wanted a better photo on WP, why not use it.
“She has left other things unflattering to Dave there.”
This is your standard for objectivity? Betsy Devine camps out on that page removing negative information and never adds anything but positive stuff. She’s such a hopeless fangirl that she thinks TechJunk and NewsJunk are notable projects worthy of mention on Wikipedia! Fucking hilarious.
Lots of issues with this reply:
1. Appearance of impropriety is just as bad as actual impropriety for Wikipedia.
2. Being someone’s friend is not the same as being a fan of a band. More apt comparison: being close friends with the lead singer.
3. If NPOV is sought, why should we pit extremes against each other and hope that “neutral” is the result? Why not just get neutral folks to do the editing?
4. If Betsy were truly behaving in a NPOV manner, then ANYONE could fill in for her. It would be just as effective and not nearly as sketchy-looking. Fact is, though, that she’s not. She’s serving as Dave’s protector.
5. I find it curious that you’re so concerned about negative spin, but seemingly unconcerned with the fellatio-level positive spin that Dave gets from certain, oft-quoted publications to which WP gives so much weight.
Bottom line: “Winer haters” shouldn’t have to troll the Winer bio to keep it neutral. It should be neutral as a matter of course. That is not the status quo.
1) Well, WP is a flawed model because of Tragedy of the Commons. It’s always going to be that way. I figured that out ever since somebody changed the title of Hallucinogen to an apparently PC subjected called Psychedelics, Disassociatives, and Delirants. Thus, in additional to truly objective people, you’re going to have bias and it will all depend on WP politics.
2) Actually, I know a few friends of bands that have updated Wikipedia with images, or friends with other celebrities. You ignore the fact that I am specifically focusing on images. See the bio guideline above. What do you find in professional biographies–a professional photo.
3) Unfortunately, it is very hard to get Neutral POV 100% from people. But as far as I know, it’s only people who have a negative opinion of Winer objecting to the picture change, not based on your concerns but the ugly things BSM and Kyle are saying.
Anyway, I not really talking about article facts so much as the fact that changing a picture to a better version should not be seen as a violation of NPOV. The Besty picture looks more professional than the candid shot. As a person concerned with WP quality, I support that, and I will for everybody. I have no problem with a famous person wanting a better picture and getting it on WP, simply because it’s treating the living person with respect. That goes for anybody not Dave Winer.
If she was trying to get rid of unflattering (but factual non-trivial and non-spun information), then I’d see a concern.
Read the logs. She does that all the time. She just deleted references to the lawsuit filed by Jack Russo against Dave Winer over the Weblogs.Com sale.
We should run down all of Betsy’s edits. She’s his No. 1 protector on Wikipedia.
“Read the logs. She does that all the time. She just deleted references to the lawsuit filed by Jack Russo against Dave Winer over the Weblogs.Com sale.”
This needs to be repeated.
JRT, I understand what you’re saying, but you’re simply starting from a false premise.
If Betsy Devine had her way there would be nothing negative about dave winer. She’s not leaving anything because she’s fair, she’s leaving enough so that she still has some control over the page.
The photo doesn’t really matter – what matters is he complained and she complied. On top of that, in a photo with a tight crop, she felt compelled to caption it with “in Cambridge, Massachusetts” – as if that matters.
There’s an example of his complaining here: http://www.scripting.com/stories/2008/08/14/theEffPositionOnWikipedia.html#p4
I like this one because it also includes his paranoia that his bad photo is due to Jimmy Wales being out to get him.
As Mancuso and sinc note, the other bullsh*t move from BetsyTheDevine is that she keeps editing out the Russo story.
Winer wrote pages of stories on the Russo tale. Even notes it as #14 in his Things to Revisit link list on Scripting News. He put it all on his site so Google queries on Russo would show this stuff.
“Well, WP is a flawed model because of Tragedy of the Commons. “
WP isn’t flawed because of “The Tragedy Of The Commons”, which is an evidence-free economic myth that nobody with any intelligence should promulgate.
WP is flawed because it is a paranoid, secretive, infighting cult.