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	<title>Comments on: Is FlickrFan&#8217;s AP Feed Proprietary RSS?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://eyeonwiner.org/archives/2008/is-flickrfans-ap-feed-proprietary-rss/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://eyeonwiner.org/archives/2008/is-flickrfans-ap-feed-proprietary-rss</link>
	<description>Keeping an eye on Dave Winer</description>
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		<title>By: McD</title>
		<link>http://eyeonwiner.org/archives/2008/is-flickrfans-ap-feed-proprietary-rss/comment-page-1#comment-1014</link>
		<dc:creator>McD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jan 2008 22:59:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eyeonwiner.org/archives/2008/is-flickrfans-ap-feed-proprietary-rss#comment-1014</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;The enclosures URL&#039;s have been changed... The triple slashes are gone.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I need to update my blog. There are more new AP photos and Dave got a positive review from Lance Knoble. &quot;No Bull&quot; Knoble... he likes it.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;But what they always rave about are the photos. AP photos in near realtime... for free.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Knoble wants every school to shows those images. I would expect many schools would like all the images. The world AP covers is not always that pleasing... it&#039;s based upon a lot of conflict and political disorder.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;A feed of just great photography would be much less interesting for most. We typically get some nice photos already with a screensaver.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The enclosures URL&#8217;s have been changed&#8230; The triple slashes are gone.</p>

<p>I need to update my blog. There are more new AP photos and Dave got a positive review from Lance Knoble. &#8220;No Bull&#8221; Knoble&#8230; he likes it.</p>

<p>But what they always rave about are the photos. AP photos in near realtime&#8230; for free.</p>

<p>Knoble wants every school to shows those images. I would expect many schools would like all the images. The world AP covers is not always that pleasing&#8230; it&#8217;s based upon a lot of conflict and political disorder.</p>

<p>A feed of just great photography would be much less interesting for most. We typically get some nice photos already with a screensaver.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Wine-a-lot</title>
		<link>http://eyeonwiner.org/archives/2008/is-flickrfans-ap-feed-proprietary-rss/comment-page-1#comment-999</link>
		<dc:creator>Wine-a-lot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jan 2008 05:54:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eyeonwiner.org/archives/2008/is-flickrfans-ap-feed-proprietary-rss#comment-999</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;When I was playing with FlickrFan yesterday I saw that the whole URI (including &quot;http://&quot; or &quot;http:///&quot; or &quot;htp://&quot; or &quot;whatever:///////&quot;) is stored in the database, actually, at least as far as the photoFan script is concerned.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I must say, the UI for OPML Editor is not particularly intuitive. I suspect there is a simple way to inspect the database and the scripts, but in my short time using the program it was certainly not obvious. Fortunately after opening and closing the program a few times I inadvertently caused errors (like a table somehow disappearing) that brought up windows to inspect the OPML of one of the running scripts and the database. I don&#039;t have the program on my computer anymore, but one of the more confusing things is the way &#039;app&#039; script functions are mixed into the menus with scripting environment actions.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I was playing with FlickrFan yesterday I saw that the whole URI (including &#8220;http://&#8221; or &#8220;http:///&#8221; or &#8220;htp://&#8221; or &#8220;whatever:///////&#8221;) is stored in the database, actually, at least as far as the photoFan script is concerned.</p>

<p>I must say, the UI for OPML Editor is not particularly intuitive. I suspect there is a simple way to inspect the database and the scripts, but in my short time using the program it was certainly not obvious. Fortunately after opening and closing the program a few times I inadvertently caused errors (like a table somehow disappearing) that brought up windows to inspect the OPML of one of the running scripts and the database. I don&#8217;t have the program on my computer anymore, but one of the more confusing things is the way &#8216;app&#8217; script functions are mixed into the menus with scripting environment actions.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: EyeOnWiner</title>
		<link>http://eyeonwiner.org/archives/2008/is-flickrfans-ap-feed-proprietary-rss/comment-page-1#comment-998</link>
		<dc:creator>EyeOnWiner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jan 2008 02:19:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eyeonwiner.org/archives/2008/is-flickrfans-ap-feed-proprietary-rss#comment-998</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;If you&#039;re just going to ignore everything before the :// why store it in the DB?&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you&#8217;re just going to ignore everything before the :// why store it in the DB?</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://eyeonwiner.org/archives/2008/is-flickrfans-ap-feed-proprietary-rss/comment-page-1#comment-997</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jan 2008 23:43:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eyeonwiner.org/archives/2008/is-flickrfans-ap-feed-proprietary-rss#comment-997</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;EoW, you wouldn&#039;t store http:// in the database? How would you handle local files, then? Or any of the many ways to access a resource that the generic URI syntax gives you? (I mean, it&#039;d be insane to have a separate application trawl my own hard drive for pictures and generate a local rss file with file-local URI ... but if I were so insane,I&#039;d expect it to work)&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>EoW, you wouldn&#8217;t store http:// in the database? How would you handle local files, then? Or any of the many ways to access a resource that the generic URI syntax gives you? (I mean, it&#8217;d be insane to have a separate application trawl my own hard drive for pictures and generate a local rss file with file-local URI &#8230; but if I were so insane,I&#8217;d expect it to work)</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: EyeOnWiner</title>
		<link>http://eyeonwiner.org/archives/2008/is-flickrfans-ap-feed-proprietary-rss/comment-page-1#comment-994</link>
		<dc:creator>EyeOnWiner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jan 2008 02:09:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eyeonwiner.org/archives/2008/is-flickrfans-ap-feed-proprietary-rss#comment-994</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;My guess is that the library just ignores everything before and including :/* when it&#039;s reading in what it &quot;knows&quot; to be a URL. I wonder if the scheme is even required.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My guess is that the library just ignores everything before and including :/* when it&#8217;s reading in what it &#8220;knows&#8221; to be a URL. I wonder if the scheme is even required.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Jon</title>
		<link>http://eyeonwiner.org/archives/2008/is-flickrfans-ap-feed-proprietary-rss/comment-page-1#comment-993</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jan 2008 01:25:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eyeonwiner.org/archives/2008/is-flickrfans-ap-feed-proprietary-rss#comment-993</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Ha, crap://, that&#039;s rich. What an interesting library that apparently strips the URI scheme and replaces it with http.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ha, crap://, that&#8217;s rich. What an interesting library that apparently strips the URI scheme and replaces it with http.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: EyeOnWiner</title>
		<link>http://eyeonwiner.org/archives/2008/is-flickrfans-ap-feed-proprietary-rss/comment-page-1#comment-992</link>
		<dc:creator>EyeOnWiner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jan 2008 22:59:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eyeonwiner.org/archives/2008/is-flickrfans-ap-feed-proprietary-rss#comment-992</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;That&#039;s certainly possible and it&#039;s possibly even likely... although I really have a hard time believing that the &lt;em&gt;original&lt;/em&gt; feed with the three slashes wasn&#039;t intentional... even if the &quot;htp&quot; was the result of a find-and-replace typo.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Probably the most likely scenario, in my mind, is that he figured out he could break iPhoto with a slightly tweaked feed... but then when he got caught he silently changed it. I also say this because of the bizarre change from /ap/ to /ap2/.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;There&#039;s nothing I can find about the feed change in the changelog for FlickrFan itself, although it&#039;s clear that Dave is trying to hide the feed.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s certainly possible and it&#8217;s possibly even likely&#8230; although I really have a hard time believing that the <em>original</em> feed with the three slashes wasn&#8217;t intentional&#8230; even if the &#8220;htp&#8221; was the result of a find-and-replace typo.</p>

<p>Probably the most likely scenario, in my mind, is that he figured out he could break iPhoto with a slightly tweaked feed&#8230; but then when he got caught he silently changed it. I also say this because of the bizarre change from /ap/ to /ap2/.</p>

<p>There&#8217;s nothing I can find about the feed change in the changelog for FlickrFan itself, although it&#8217;s clear that Dave is trying to hide the feed.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Wine-a-lot</title>
		<link>http://eyeonwiner.org/archives/2008/is-flickrfans-ap-feed-proprietary-rss/comment-page-1#comment-991</link>
		<dc:creator>Wine-a-lot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jan 2008 22:52:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eyeonwiner.org/archives/2008/is-flickrfans-ap-feed-proprietary-rss#comment-991</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I don&#039;t deny that it&#039;s possible Dave was trying to break other RSS readers, but I&#039;m not convinced. (Actually, I wish I was. It would be great to catch him in some nefarious act.)&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I didn&#039;t mean to suggest that Dave at any point hand-coded his RSS feed, but I do agree that the way I described my scenario, in which the feed is created by &quot;textediting programmatically&quot; (i.e. removing old items from the bottom, adding new at the top) doesn&#039;t seem likely. Evidently the feed is generated by OPML Editor, and it would be simplest for the feed generating script to draw from its database the most recent &lt;i&gt;n&lt;/i&gt; items and build a new file each time.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Keeping in mind that the RSS feed is generated this way, and given that the top (most recent) entries of the RSS file are correct, I would modify my original scenario: Some time after our discussion on Wednesday, Dave makes a wholesale change to his database, a find &amp; replace operation, changing all AP photo URIs from &quot;http:///...&quot; to &quot;htp://...&quot;. This would explain why older items which earlier on Wednesday had the triple-slash now have &quot;htp&quot;. Then he corrected his script that processes the images he downloads from AP, so that URI for each new item he puts into his database has the proper double slash.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Incidentally, since my curiosity has been raised, I downloaded FlickrFan and did a few tests. OPML Editor is quite generous when interpreting URIs. In my own feed, a URI like &quot;crap:////&quot; was treated just like &quot;http://&quot;. In fact, &quot;ftp://&quot; was also treated as an HTTP URI. It&#039;s not just the interpretation of feeds, either. Submit a messed up URI to the FlickrFan &#039;app&#039; when adding your own feed to the list and it works fine there, too. It would appear this is a &#039;feature&#039; of OPML Editor, not just the FlickrFan script. (Dave would say it&#039;s Postel&#039;s law in action, right? Be liberal in what you accept? Geez, I need to just stop reading him!)&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t deny that it&#8217;s possible Dave was trying to break other RSS readers, but I&#8217;m not convinced. (Actually, I wish I was. It would be great to catch him in some nefarious act.)</p>

<p>I didn&#8217;t mean to suggest that Dave at any point hand-coded his RSS feed, but I do agree that the way I described my scenario, in which the feed is created by &#8220;textediting programmatically&#8221; (i.e. removing old items from the bottom, adding new at the top) doesn&#8217;t seem likely. Evidently the feed is generated by OPML Editor, and it would be simplest for the feed generating script to draw from its database the most recent <i>n</i> items and build a new file each time.</p>

<p>Keeping in mind that the RSS feed is generated this way, and given that the top (most recent) entries of the RSS file are correct, I would modify my original scenario: Some time after our discussion on Wednesday, Dave makes a wholesale change to his database, a find &amp; replace operation, changing all AP photo URIs from &#8220;http:///&#8230;&#8221; to &#8220;htp://&#8230;&#8221;. This would explain why older items which earlier on Wednesday had the triple-slash now have &#8220;htp&#8221;. Then he corrected his script that processes the images he downloads from AP, so that URI for each new item he puts into his database has the proper double slash.</p>

<p>Incidentally, since my curiosity has been raised, I downloaded FlickrFan and did a few tests. OPML Editor is quite generous when interpreting URIs. In my own feed, a URI like &#8220;crap:////&#8221; was treated just like &#8220;http://&#8221;. In fact, &#8220;ftp://&#8221; was also treated as an HTTP URI. It&#8217;s not just the interpretation of feeds, either. Submit a messed up URI to the FlickrFan &#8216;app&#8217; when adding your own feed to the list and it works fine there, too. It would appear this is a &#8216;feature&#8217; of OPML Editor, not just the FlickrFan script. (Dave would say it&#8217;s Postel&#8217;s law in action, right? Be liberal in what you accept? Geez, I need to just stop reading him!)</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: McD</title>
		<link>http://eyeonwiner.org/archives/2008/is-flickrfans-ap-feed-proprietary-rss/comment-page-1#comment-990</link>
		<dc:creator>McD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jan 2008 20:24:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eyeonwiner.org/archives/2008/is-flickrfans-ap-feed-proprietary-rss#comment-990</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;What I suspect Dave has done is use a real AP feed that he has purchased or been authorized to use.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;He uses that feed to upload photos to his S3 service.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Then he creates an RSS feed with enclosures to his cache of AP photos.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;His RSS feed has the triple /// issue making it non-standard.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;His cache of AP photos are accessible at static.flickrfan.org which is a domain/server that points to amazon&#039;s S3 service.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;He can legally download the photos, I assume. It&#039;s the passing out of the photos to FlickrFan users (and anyone that can interpret his RSS feed and download the photos) that is suspect.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I love the images. I&#039;d like to have them keep coming but it probably won&#039;t last to scale beyond a few hundred users of the service. Too bad.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Most of Dave&#039;s new product dreams are intended to route around content controls and ownership.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;He&#039;d love to be a source for photos, audio (music and podcasts) and video but the realities of those media types are that the really good stuff is commercial. The non-commercial stuff tends to be worth something to some people. It&#039;s the long tail effect that makes open source software and open media so damn tricky.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What I suspect Dave has done is use a real AP feed that he has purchased or been authorized to use.</p>

<p>He uses that feed to upload photos to his S3 service.</p>

<p>Then he creates an RSS feed with enclosures to his cache of AP photos.</p>

<p>His RSS feed has the triple /// issue making it non-standard.</p>

<p>His cache of AP photos are accessible at static.flickrfan.org which is a domain/server that points to amazon&#8217;s S3 service.</p>

<p>He can legally download the photos, I assume. It&#8217;s the passing out of the photos to FlickrFan users (and anyone that can interpret his RSS feed and download the photos) that is suspect.</p>

<p>I love the images. I&#8217;d like to have them keep coming but it probably won&#8217;t last to scale beyond a few hundred users of the service. Too bad.</p>

<p>Most of Dave&#8217;s new product dreams are intended to route around content controls and ownership.</p>

<p>He&#8217;d love to be a source for photos, audio (music and podcasts) and video but the realities of those media types are that the really good stuff is commercial. The non-commercial stuff tends to be worth something to some people. It&#8217;s the long tail effect that makes open source software and open media so damn tricky.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: EyeOnWiner</title>
		<link>http://eyeonwiner.org/archives/2008/is-flickrfans-ap-feed-proprietary-rss/comment-page-1#comment-989</link>
		<dc:creator>EyeOnWiner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jan 2008 19:58:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eyeonwiner.org/archives/2008/is-flickrfans-ap-feed-proprietary-rss#comment-989</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Actually, to nerd out for a moment, by my way of thinking, doing the text editing programmatically is going to be more difficult than keeping a list of URLs in an array and plugging them into a template. In the former case you&#039;re looking at, probably, a few dozen lines of code to do the XML manipulation. In the latter you&#039;re looking at two or three lines, not including some echo/print/write statements for the urls and such.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;That said, if he&#039;s hand-entering the URLs into a database, this problem would be replicated. Although if it were me, I wouldn&#039;t store the &quot;http://&quot; in the database. It&#039;s just wasted space.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, to nerd out for a moment, by my way of thinking, doing the text editing programmatically is going to be more difficult than keeping a list of URLs in an array and plugging them into a template. In the former case you&#8217;re looking at, probably, a few dozen lines of code to do the XML manipulation. In the latter you&#8217;re looking at two or three lines, not including some echo/print/write statements for the urls and such.</p>

<p>That said, if he&#8217;s hand-entering the URLs into a database, this problem would be replicated. Although if it were me, I wouldn&#8217;t store the &#8220;http://&#8221; in the database. It&#8217;s just wasted space.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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