Comments on: Journalist: Winer Knows Nothing About Media Business http://eyeonwiner.org/archives/2009/journalist-winer-knows-nothing-about-media-business Keeping an eye on Dave Winer Wed, 23 Sep 2009 16:41:27 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Anonymous http://eyeonwiner.org/archives/2009/journalist-winer-knows-nothing-about-media-business/comment-page-1#comment-1768 Anonymous Fri, 15 May 2009 15:57:10 +0000 http://eyeonwiner.org/?p=488#comment-1768 <p>Winer also likes to criticize Twitter because he's in a minority about what it is. Look at his recent recap of what "celebrities" post about on twitter: he notes that "most of it is what-I-had-for-lunch kind of stuff-- in particular @Ev and @Biz are the biggest offenders" (I'm paraphrasing). Never mind that Ev and Biz aren't <em>celebrities</em> among any group but the ingrown, self-congratulatory world of the tech industry, note that Winer's biggest criticism of them is that they don't use Twitter for "journalism".</p> <p>As I've said before, Dave is hell-bent on turning Twitter into a journalistic outfit precisely because that would undermine the company and put enormous ethical restrictions on what they do. The SUL, for example, only represents a "conflict of interest" if Twitter is a journalistic medium-- and <em>only</em> a journalistic medium. So by callously attacking people who post what they ate for lunch today (that isn't "journalism"), Dave is pushing, again his agenda.</p> <p>I don't like to comment about people's motivations, but one thing that pops out at me whenever I read Winer's thoughts about Twitter is an extreme jealousy toward Twitter's founder's, Ev and Biz. I don't know if Winer is <em>actually</em> jealous of them, but his writing seems to imply it. Knowing how dishonest he can be when pushing an agenda (ex, Obama), it wouldn't surprise me at all if Dave's continued writings on the death of media and Twitter as its replacement are really just an attempt to torpedo Twitter.</p> Winer also likes to criticize Twitter because he’s in a minority about what it is. Look at his recent recap of what “celebrities” post about on twitter: he notes that “most of it is what-I-had-for-lunch kind of stuff– in particular @Ev and @Biz are the biggest offenders” (I’m paraphrasing). Never mind that Ev and Biz aren’t celebrities among any group but the ingrown, self-congratulatory world of the tech industry, note that Winer’s biggest criticism of them is that they don’t use Twitter for “journalism”.

As I’ve said before, Dave is hell-bent on turning Twitter into a journalistic outfit precisely because that would undermine the company and put enormous ethical restrictions on what they do. The SUL, for example, only represents a “conflict of interest” if Twitter is a journalistic medium– and only a journalistic medium. So by callously attacking people who post what they ate for lunch today (that isn’t “journalism”), Dave is pushing, again his agenda.

I don’t like to comment about people’s motivations, but one thing that pops out at me whenever I read Winer’s thoughts about Twitter is an extreme jealousy toward Twitter’s founder’s, Ev and Biz. I don’t know if Winer is actually jealous of them, but his writing seems to imply it. Knowing how dishonest he can be when pushing an agenda (ex, Obama), it wouldn’t surprise me at all if Dave’s continued writings on the death of media and Twitter as its replacement are really just an attempt to torpedo Twitter.

]]> By: KyleOrLyle http://eyeonwiner.org/archives/2009/journalist-winer-knows-nothing-about-media-business/comment-page-1#comment-1767 KyleOrLyle Thu, 14 May 2009 15:13:07 +0000 http://eyeonwiner.org/?p=488#comment-1767 <p>Dave is also obsessed with Twitter and seems to be hell bent on trying to make people leave Twitter. This constant call to blow up Twitter and throw "federated" decentralized Twitters out to the world is just an attack on the success of Ev and Biz. Right now,</p> <p>I would not be surprised if a count showed that Dave posted 200 times or more over the last year just about Twitter.</p> <p>The other funny thing is there was this whole navel gazing session over Twitter as the coral reef, Twitter being undefined and different things to everyone. Now suddenly Twitter must be the printing press of journalism, the celebrities are using and abusing it, and Twitter is mistreating their users.</p> <p>Enough!</p> Dave is also obsessed with Twitter and seems to be hell bent on trying to make people leave Twitter. This constant call to blow up Twitter and throw “federated” decentralized Twitters out to the world is just an attack on the success of Ev and Biz. Right now,

I would not be surprised if a count showed that Dave posted 200 times or more over the last year just about Twitter.

The other funny thing is there was this whole navel gazing session over Twitter as the coral reef, Twitter being undefined and different things to everyone. Now suddenly Twitter must be the printing press of journalism, the celebrities are using and abusing it, and Twitter is mistreating their users.

Enough!

]]> By: JRT http://eyeonwiner.org/archives/2009/journalist-winer-knows-nothing-about-media-business/comment-page-1#comment-1766 JRT Tue, 12 May 2009 12:47:00 +0000 http://eyeonwiner.org/?p=488#comment-1766 <p>One thing I've learned reading Dave's notes over the years are that he seems to think in very idealistic, somewhat naive views about how the media works.</p> <p>For instance, his claims about Journalism always end up going back to the point thinking he has the qualifications and that "every man" will fill in the gap. I think he's also said stuff like "advertising will die", etc. He seems to believe technology alone will change the future and bring a utopia where old main stream media failed, forgetting that so-called revolutionary change doesn't happen that quickly.</p> <p>If you note his latest complaints about Twitter, he seems upset that both business and media entertainers entered the game. I noted during the podcasting boom that he complained about podcasters who were treating the medium with humour and satire.</p> <p>Anyway, I've become a little critical of the entire media circuit. Authors like Dave and those who write on Techmeme are so quick to criticize "old media", want to defend piracy and attack those who fight it, etc. I think that itself shows a very biased viewpoint.</p> One thing I’ve learned reading Dave’s notes over the years are that he seems to think in very idealistic, somewhat naive views about how the media works.

For instance, his claims about Journalism always end up going back to the point thinking he has the qualifications and that “every man” will fill in the gap. I think he’s also said stuff like “advertising will die”, etc. He seems to believe technology alone will change the future and bring a utopia where old main stream media failed, forgetting that so-called revolutionary change doesn’t happen that quickly.

If you note his latest complaints about Twitter, he seems upset that both business and media entertainers entered the game. I noted during the podcasting boom that he complained about podcasters who were treating the medium with humour and satire.

Anyway, I’ve become a little critical of the entire media circuit. Authors like Dave and those who write on Techmeme are so quick to criticize “old media”, want to defend piracy and attack those who fight it, etc. I think that itself shows a very biased viewpoint.

]]> By: Bullshit Mancuso http://eyeonwiner.org/archives/2009/journalist-winer-knows-nothing-about-media-business/comment-page-1#comment-1765 Bullshit Mancuso Tue, 12 May 2009 01:12:36 +0000 http://eyeonwiner.org/?p=488#comment-1765 <p>Winer thinks your message was directed at him:</p> <p>http://twitter.com/davewiner/status/1765134983</p> <p>It should have been directed at him. Dave's followers are stupid because of who they take their cues from. He's a self-glorifying dilettante.</p> Winer thinks your message was directed at him:

http://twitter.com/davewiner/status/1765134983

It should have been directed at him. Dave’s followers are stupid because of who they take their cues from. He’s a self-glorifying dilettante.

]]> By: Jason http://eyeonwiner.org/archives/2009/journalist-winer-knows-nothing-about-media-business/comment-page-1#comment-1764 Jason Mon, 11 May 2009 22:19:46 +0000 http://eyeonwiner.org/?p=488#comment-1764 <p>This is funny, but I feel constrained to comment that my Tweet wasn't really directed at Winer (who may not know much about media, but is an always interesting writer about technology), but rather at Dave's followers, who were upset that I questioned his thesis that "sources will fill where we used to need journalists" (see: http://www.scripting.com/stories/2009/03/17/ifYouDontLikeTheNews.html) and that this a very good thing.</p> This is funny, but I feel constrained to comment that my Tweet wasn’t really directed at Winer (who may not know much about media, but is an always interesting writer about technology), but rather at Dave’s followers, who were upset that I questioned his thesis that “sources will fill where we used to need journalists” (see: http://www.scripting.com/stories/2009/03/17/ifYouDontLikeTheNews.html) and that this a very good thing.

]]>